Obvious exits: [out] to Odeon, [down] to cubiculum
levaminis, [north] to Prima
Porta VRomana, [back] to secluded corner
HospesII says, "hi"
rhetstudent1302 Hospes has arrived.
pastafarian Hospes has arrived.
Nick_Hospes says, "obscure browsers ftw"
HospesII has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove HospesII.
HospesXVI has arrived.
HospesXIV has arrived.
cj_Hospes has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove cj_Hospes.
cj Hospes has arrived.
Lukebluefive Hospes (idle 11m) has arrived.
Ilahe Hospes (idle 16m) goes out.
HospesXVI has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove HospesXVI.
Ilahe Hospes (idle 17m) has arrived.
Ilahe_Hospes has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Ilahe_Hospes.
Ilahe Hospes has arrived.
Ilahe Hospes goes out.
Ilahe Hospes has arrived.
Ilahe_Hospes says, "Who's finished?"
Nick_Hospes says, "I am"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "Okay, Nick, click on Odeon"
You say, "I am"
Nick Hospes goes out.
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "I am, -nate""
Ilahe_Hospes says, "HospesXXV, click on odeon,
rhetstudent1302 too"
You view Odeon...
.
Nick Hospes is here.
Obvious exits: [west] to Consuls' offices, [in] to
Thermopolium of Scintilla
Ilahe_Hospes says, "go ahead and chat amongst
yourself until more arrive"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "whats up guys?""
Nick_Hospes says, "I'm a bit tired"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "meto, its the
beginning of the week""
Ilahe_Hospes says, "Okay... so"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "Now that you've read the
article, you have some questions
to answer. They're on the board."
Ilahe_Hospes says, "The first is: What theory do you
think the author is using
in this article?"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "Everyone needs to participate...
I would like you to
copy/paste as much of the log as you can in your
journal to prove your
participation"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "superego and the id""
You say, "human nature: conflict of id and
super-ego"
HospesXIV says, "I agree"
HospesXIV says, "a person only does such things in
order to somehow benefit
themseves"
HospesXIV says, "themselves*"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, ""The author seems to
support the idea that in
competition vs. cooperation, competition is the
most common"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "and that external
cultural factors influence our
current ideology""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, ""Yes, that author also
used the conflict between
the id and the superego to somewhat explain why
competition is so prevalent"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, ""In addition, the author
mentions not only how
evolution is on-going, especially in the realm of
ideas, but also how the
best way to survive is not to cooperate, but to
compete."
HospesXIV says, "ofcourse the world is structured
around competition thats how
we advance "
You say, "The author also mentions that competition
is a nature factor whereas
cooperation is on the nurture side"
Nick_Hospes says, "this is because for thousands of
years, man survived by
being the best a competeing"
Nick_Hospes says, "that is my limb"
You say, "indeed. So why change now?"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "Yes, the author does
mention that."
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "He man really survived
all these years by
competition?"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "Has?"
Nick_Hospes says, "I don't mean after the dawn of
civilization, I mean before
that"
HospesXIV says, "man has survived by cooperation but
has advanced by
competition"
Nick_Hospes says, "when we reached the same basic
genetic point"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "Ok, well, I don't think
we have many records about
how they lived so far back"
You say, "cavepaintings?"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "what about science today?
It is not advanced by
much except cooperation,a s far as I can see"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "but where cave paintings
made before or after
civilization? I don't think there is enough
evidence to say either way"
HospesXIV says, "well cooperation also plays a huge
part in advancement"
Nick_Hospes says, "there is a distinction between
advancement of the
individual or society as a whole, the individual
advances by competition"
You say, "it is. It's impossible to study the
advanced fields of science on
your own. You need people to help you"
HospesXIV says, "but once you have acquired the
knowledge you are able to
advance on your own"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "Ok, but with no realiable
dating techniques taht go
back that far, how can you ensure your "findings or
deductions" are coorect?"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "I see waht you mean, that
is certainly true to a
certain extent"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "the switch from
cooperation to competition
happened when hunter gather cultures discovered
agriculture and began to
settle in one place""
You say, "C14 dating is close enough. The margin of
error is around 50 years,
which is insignificant when it comes to dating
things that are thousands of
years old"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "but doesn't science and
tedchnologies always
advance quicker as a group? I personally know
coding works much faster and
better as a team"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "right, but how far back
are caveman paintings?"
HospesXIV says, "but again thats for the advancement
of society not ones sef"
HospesXIV says, "self*"
Nick_Hospes says, "science and techonology are
cooperation, but in society the
individual must compete with others to win based on
the nature of our system."
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "yet farmers cooperate
with their buyersm they don't
compete with them"
Nick_Hospes says, "well, the government buys what
the poeple don't or sets the
prices, but thats a different problem"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "I'm igoring the
government, we are talking about
soon after men turned into farmers"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "farmers as whole
compete against eachother""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "as someone mentioned, I
wa keeping the previous
train of thought"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "that is true, but they
only compete with similar
producers"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "competition happens, but
how prevalent is it?"
You say, "they comptete against anybody that might
threaten their existance"
Nick_Hospes says, "since there are very few
individually owned farms, not that
often"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "I think that far too much
emphasis has been placed
on competition, in an attempt to gain more support
for evolution..."
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "selling agriculture is
a form of capitalism,
therefor here has to exist competition"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "there*""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "right, but how do
bussnesses and orgainzations
produce things? or even farmers for that matter?"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "the use of labor""
HospesXIV says, "they produce what is most needed"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "not cooperation""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "everyone has to hire
others to work for them to
make products"
Nick_Hospes says, "they pay people to cooperate to
produce things"
HospesXIV says, "yes but they also advance because
of other competitions"
Nick_Hospes says, "but the people had to compete the
get the job"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "no not cooperate, they
pay people to do things
for them""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "the people who work for a
farmer during harvest or
for a bussness don't compete against it, they
cooperate with fellow workers"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "theres a large
difference between cooperation
and doing something for money""
HospesXIV says, "if everyone only cooperated the
world would never advance
because you would never have the need to do better
than someone else"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "it is merely an exchange
of services"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "what?"
You say, "exactly. Just look how much technology
advances in wars"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "you need to look on a
larger scale, not
individual famrs""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "you don't realy belive
that"
Nick_Hospes says, "necessity is the mother of
invention"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "right, and if only
cooperation existed, there would
be less need to advance"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "but it doesn't"
HospesXIV says, "thats where the role of competition
comes in "
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "in each company, there is
a huge amount of
employees, usually, and they all mostly work in
cooperation with each other
in various ways to make certain things"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "they are given money for
their time and effort"
Nick_Hospes says, "they compete for the promotion"
HospesXIV says, "but they also compete with each
other to do better than their
co workers so they can get better pay or better
positions"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "then the company competes
with similar companies
that produce simialr productss to give the best
product for the lowest pirce"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "yes, employees are in
constant competition for
job security""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "that's true too, but it
doesn't interferre with the
cooperation, it usually helps it"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "every person in a
company has their own motive""
You view Thermopolium of Scintilla...
.
Obvious exits: [out] to Odeon, [down] to cubiculum
levaminis, [north] to Prima
Porta VRomana, [back] to secluded corner
Ilahe_Hospes says, "but how can memes be used in the
opposite manner?"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "give an example"
You view Odeon...
.
Nick Hospes, rhetstudent1302_Hospes,
Lukebluefive_Hospes, and HospesXIV are
here.
Obvious exits: [west] to Consuls' offices, [in] to
Thermopolium of Scintilla
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "at the same time that you
are competing with fellow
employees"
HospesXIV says, "so competition and cooperation both
help a bussiness in their
own ways"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "right"
You say, "isn't that the basis for human existance?
Cooperate when neccesary
and compete when possible?"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "It might be, but i
frankly think that is backwards"
Nick_Hospes says, "and try to come out above all of
the others"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "how so?""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "It's too individualistic,
haven't you heard live
together, or die alone? people are always stronger
in groups, that one of the
reasons society exists"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "yes that is true, but
they always in competition
with those groups""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "So I cooperate when
possible, compete when
necessary (like in my job)"
Nick_Hospes says, "but if noone stands above the
crowd, the society will just
be a mob of nothing"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "right"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "there is always both in a
well-ordered society"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "yes i agree""
HospesXIV says, "ofcourse you always try to do
better than your collegues"
You say, "agreed"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "true""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "if one or the other is
missing, you either have
every man for himself, or everyone is content with
how it is"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "so basically, you
cooperate untill you find a
chance to advance yourself""
Nick_Hospes says, "then you stand up out of the mob
and do something"
You say, "isn't that just competition in deisguise?"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "maybe, depends on the
situation, but generally, yes"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "thats what i was
thinking""
HospesXIV says, "i agree"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "still, it's a different
goal, I seek to cooperate
primarily"
Nick_Hospes says, "competition is definatly a
positive, it pushes people to
see what they are truly capable of"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "cooperation seems like
a false idea to make it
seem that you are not trying to get a leg up on
everyone elsse"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "If it comes to a tight
spot, when I need to
compete, I will"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "well, some are, and some
aren't"
HospesXIV says, "when i see an opportunity to
compete i wil"
You say, "true cooperation just doesn't work. i
mean, just look how miserably
communism has failed (or socialism rather)"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "but you know that
somewhere in unconcious there
that driving force to suceed""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "you can't always tell
somone's actions, and you can
never know them for certain"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "sorry i cant see what
im typing sometimes it
doesnt make sense""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "right, but some of that
driving force can be
fulfilled by helping a group of peope suceed with
you"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "that's ok, np"
Nick_Hospes says, "cooperation seems to be acting in
the best interets of
other while competition is my acting in my best
interest"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "right"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "i think everyone has
the hidden desire to do
better then other around you""
Nick_Hospes says, "I don't hide that"
You say, "me neither"
HospesXIV says, "exactly what the article talks
about"
Nick_Hospes says, "I want to win"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "exactly"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "so cooperation is
false""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "that's why cooperation is
more benefitial to
society (and a good solution to the crazy drivers
on the raod each day)"
Nick_Hospes says, "I will tell you all right now, I
want to be richer and more
successful than all of you"
Nick_Hospes says, "combined"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "well see...""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "oh, yes, everyone has a
desire to suceed"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "haha""
HospesXIV says, "you cooperate for certain things
such as keeping your job and
friends"
HospesXIV says, "but on real you are competing while
you are cooperating"
You say, "but aren't those just assets?"
HospesXIV says, "by becoming well known and
considered good among otheres"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "but couldn't you also
look at it as cooperating
while you are competing?"
HospesXIV says, "you are putting yourself higher
than those that arent
cooperating"
HospesXIV says, "exactly my point"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "it seems that
cooperation is tool used in
competition""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "well, if some aren't
cooperating when I am, it's
not my goal to get higher than them, 90% of the
time"
Ilahe_Hospes arrives from Thermopolium of Scintilla
Ilahe_Hospes quietly enters.
Nick_Hospes says, "you tolerate cooperation to
advance yourself"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "I see them as tools used
when the other doesn't
work"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "I'm sorry... I only
tolerate competition, that's
why I like working with others, playing in
team-sports"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "I don't like competition
nearly as much, nor see it
as improtant as cooperation"
Nick_Hospes says, "I'm not talking about recreation"
Nick_Hospes says, "social cooperation is completely
different"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "like the article said
people form groups to
compete against other groups""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "ok, I know, I was just
mentioning how these ideas
show forth in me, and others, in other ways"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "right, but those groups
cooperate within themselves
at the same time they are competing with the other
groups"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "agreed""
You say, "true"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "so the formation of
cooperation becomes once
again a toll for competiton""
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "tool*"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "so it seems to me, at
least, that they might not be
ones used to the exclusion fo the other, but they
have different goals,
different uses"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "i disagree""
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "and competition needs
cooperation in order to be
more effective, in the bussness level for example"
You say, "or perhaps cooperation is just a moral
excuse to justify competetive
behavior"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "they are both used for
advancement in self in
some way or another"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "lol, maybe"
You say, "like doing something for the supposed
benefit of others"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "who has any morals
anymore? they don't teach them
anymore, as far as i know"
HospesXIV says, "well hidden in cooperation is
competition"
Nick_Hospes says, "they tried at my catholic high
school"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "i have values, i
wouldnt say morals"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "I think the inverse is
true as well"
Nick_Hospes says, "didn't really work"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "values are different,
that's why you changed the
word. Values dont' have to hold you to things the
way morals do"
You say, "but morals are different from person to
person"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "true true"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "i try to live up to
those values on a daily
basis "
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "right, because morals are
not absolute, "
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "agreed"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "and neither are values"
Nick_Hospes says, "religious groups would disagree"
HospesXIV says, "true"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "thats true"
Nick_Hospes says, "you all religious?"
You say, "but different religious groups also preach
different morals,
sometimes even within themselves"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "which is sad because
most religion is the same"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "really? i don't think so,
they would say that the
correct set of morals are absolute"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "just change the names"
Nick_Hospes says, "well, I wish people would realize
that christians and
muslims talk to the same invinisble man in the sky"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "Hospes XXV, right,
rhetstudent, how are they the
same?"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "Who told you that?"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "where's your proof?"
Nick_Hospes says, "my proof?"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "I you can't prove that
statement, nor can you prove
that Christians and muslims, Hundus, and Catholics
all pray to the same God,
or believe the same things"
HospesXIV says, "well we all beleive in one greater
god or source that is
above us"
Nick_Hospes says, "aethesits don't"
You say, "the fact that there have always been some
prophets who basically
talked about the same thing. Some have just found
more followers which lead
to the religions we have today. i'm not at all
religious btw..."
HospesXIV says, "i dont agree that its the same
god."
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "yes, but that's doesn't
mean we are all praying to
the smae God, or belive in the same God"
HospesXIV says, "they have different names for the
god but ultimately it is a
higher source"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "true"
You say, "but all religions believe in the same
thing: a creator "
Nick_Hospes says, "islam and christianity have the
same holy people, moses,
jesus, elija"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "especially when every
religion clima that their god
is different somehow, that he/she wants something
differnet than the others"
Nick_Hospes says, "the only difference is mohammed"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "hello"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "but both islam and
Christianity go different places
with those people and ideas"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "Thank you for so diligently
typing away as I helped the
others"
HospesXIV says, "the only difference is different
beleifs over time"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "how so"
Nick_Hospes says, "yes, but they have the same god"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "we were having a lot of trouble
getting conversation
started over there"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "I hope you logged at least some
of it so I can read it :)"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "have you answered all the
questions?"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "the universal belief in a
cretor doens't mean that
they all belive in the same one"
Nick_Hospes says, "I'll copy the whole log right
now"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "oh... not wuite"
HospesXIV says, "well ultimately i beleive we a
started at the same place and
with different beleifs ended up with different
religions"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "not all of it will work in
backlog, but some will"
Ilahe_Hospes says, "once you've answered all the
questions and logged it in
livejournal, you may go :)"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "alright"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "how convicing do you
think the article was?"
rhetstudent1302_Hospes says, "semi-convincing i
never believe anything the
first time i read it"
HospesXIV says, "i beleive it was convincing it
pointed out the nature of man
and the reason for what we do and why"
You say, "not too convincing. i just don't believe
that cooperation exists"
Nick_Hospes says, "it was fairly convincing"
HospesXIV says, "i believe both cooperation and
competition exists and
coincides"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "lol, same here. I was
somewhat disturbed that the
author mentioned evolution, the Game of life, and
competition and cooperation
as being equality proven to be true"
Nick_Hospes says, "I would say that one lead the to
the other"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "But I agree with the fact
that competition and
cooperation both exist in life and are both
necessary"
Nick_Hospes says, "we would be nothing without both"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "right"
Nick_Hospes says, "we would have to actually talk
for starters"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "yeah"
Nick_Hospes says, "because this software wouldn't
exist"
Lukebluefive_Hospes says, "without both, right"